ISAAC MOREHOUSE & Jared Fuller 46 min

Nearbound Podcast #168: The BIG Announcement


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Who uses like lead growth language, like product lead growth language, for

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example,

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that's typically going to be more of an executive thing. Why? Because it's kind

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of cross-functional.

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You're going from product in redesigning your marketing function and your sales

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function and

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your success function and your support function to better serve the needs of

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the customer. It's a

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very cross-functional thing that has to come from an executive standpoint. And

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that's more of a

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design concept from my vantage point, right? It's not necessarily a difference

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of, well, what do I do

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given I have a job today as an account executive?

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We're back at last. Welcome to the Nearbound podcast. And this episode of the

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Nearbound podcast

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is brought to you by Crossbeam. Crossbeam is a partner ecosystem platform that

0:59

acts as a data

1:00

escrow service provider that for finds overlapping customers and prospects with

1:04

your partners while

1:05

keeping the rest of your data private and secure. So you can sign up for free

1:08

right at crossbeam.com.

1:10

Wait, Isaac, what was that? I thought, I thought Nearbound was a project of

1:19

reveal.

1:20

Wait a second. Are they more enemies? What the heck? Oh my goodness, the

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biggest news in

1:26

partnership tech history. It's real. The big reveal, the reveal in Crossbeam

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merger. It's happened.

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Going back all the way to the very first sponsor of my very first podcast

1:39

episode. That's why I did

1:40

that Adroll just kind of as a joke. If you go back to episode number one, that

1:44

was my very first ad.

1:45

That's so insane. First of all, I had to say, the number of times that Jared

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Fuller has said,

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this is the biggest news in partner history. But the thing is, he's always

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telling the truth.

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So it just keeps escalating. And this is truly wild. It's funny, Jared, because

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we knew

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you'd started the podcast a year and a half before we even launched partner

2:10

hacker.

2:10

You know, crossbeam was your first sponsor. Then we launched partner hacker,

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who was our first

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sponsor of our launch reveal, reveal. And that launch was announced on a table

2:25

in the

2:26

crossbeam lounge at SaaS Connect. And I remember you and I, you know, when we

2:31

were doing partner

2:32

hacker early on, and we're talking to all the different companies in this space

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, shout out to

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some of those early, early companies that worked with us, partner stack,

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partner fleet,

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Sindoso, a bunch of great companies. We, you know, I remember being like,

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you know, the companies that I think I like the most in this space? They're

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crossbeam and reveal.

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I like them both. And I remember I told you, I said, what they need to do is

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merge,

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and then they can buy us. And you were like, and you were like, they're never

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going to merge.

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It's not going to happen. And I was like, but it feels like it has to happen.

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I, at least I remember this conversation. So I'm using this as a, the one time

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that I was

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right about something in this industry, uh, where you and I didn't agree. But

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crazy.

3:20

I love my man. I'm crazy. I mean, I, I truly remember being like,

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and when we started talking reveal and reveal was like, Hey, let's do it. Let's

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bring partner

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hacker into reveal. And you know, you and I were really excited about this. And

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I remember

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being like, man, I love this. I love reveal. And I love that reveal is like, at

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the time,

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was just a little, a year, about a year behind crossbeam, a little less known

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in the United States,

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like a little bit of that dark horse underdog status. But I love crossbeam too.

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I mean,

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the first person you and I got a, got on a call with with partner hacker was

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Sean Blanda,

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cross beams head of content. And we're like, Sean, give us all your info and

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advice and insight,

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because you're like the best in the business at content. And like we've learned

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from that.

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We've had great friendly relationship with, uh, with Sean and the team over

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there.

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So to me, this is, this is amazing. Actually, I remember that first

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conversation. Um,

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he, he set a phrase that stuck with me to this day, stock and flow, stock and,

4:16

um,

4:16

he's probably wishing, well, no, now that we're all together, you know, it's

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like, we did a really

4:20

good job at stock and flow. We had big events. We had book launches. We did so

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much incredible

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stuff over the years. And then we did flow. I mean, we were on the socials

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daily. We had nearbound

4:29

daily partner partner hacker daily. I mean, this come full circle is just the

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wildest thing to be

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a part of. And it's so cool. You know, we talked so much about living in market

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and the customer

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is always right. Guess what customers have wanted and asked about and if I didn

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't work,

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right? And fantasized about it's like, okay, I'm running partnerships. I need

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to start doing

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some account mapping. I need to start running some plays where I'm working with

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partner data.

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So I got to get cross beam or reveal. Which one do I pick? And it's kind of

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like,

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I like them both. They have pros and cons, but like some of my partners are on

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one and some are on

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the other. More, baby. No more. Right. It's like the world's largest networked

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database.

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It's official. It's the, it's the best better together story that there is,

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right? Guess what?

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Now all of your partners are on the network, right? It's one network, one

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network now. And

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I just think it's, I couldn't be more excited. I really, I could not be more

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excited. I think

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this is something that needed to happen whenever, whenever something just makes

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sense from a market

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standpoint. And the only reason it hasn't happened is like logistical or happen

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stance. Like Simon

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didn't know that cross beam existed when he started reveal. Bob didn't know

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that Simon existed.

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And they both go about with a great idea, great product, start building it in

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different continents.

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And then eventually bump into each other when they're both kind of look like

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what appeared to

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be a little too far down the road. They have enough traction. Yeah, now we can,

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we can do it.

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We can kind of go it alone, right? Maybe we'll beat you. Maybe you'll beat us.

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Maybe it'll be a,

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maybe there's enough room for two companies. And over time, it just became

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clear like the network

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effects are so strong. You want one network. Everybody wants one network.

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But both companies were still growing, right? So it's like, well, what are you

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going to do?

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And I think this is just, this is what you do. You come together, you merge,

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right? This is not a,

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this is not a buyout by one to kill the other. This is the two companies truly

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merging,

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coming together and bringing, bringing everything that they both bring to the

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table into one. So

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anyway, I'm blabbing too much. Because like to me, this is the most exciting

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thing. This truly,

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since I first learned about all the players in this space, this was what I

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thought needed to happen.

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And I'm so excited to see it happen and to have played some small part in

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bringing it about.

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100%. And it is the craziest story that I've participated in. And in my 14 year

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history was

7:06

asked by far. And the end beneficiary to your point, Isaac, is the market, is

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the customer, is all

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of you that listen to this. And what I'm, there's so many things I'm excited

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about, but I'm just

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going to kind of riff here with you today. Why, why I think this is so cool.

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One of the personas

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that has been catching on to the whole nearbound narrative and really aligning

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faster than I had

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probably anticipated. And this was part of your and my original thesis, Isaac

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was, is the marketing

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persona. Yep. Right. And the death of cookies happening this year, this year,

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you know, like

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Google has said, we're halfway through, right? January one, they're starting

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with 1% of users,

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but by the end of the year, it'll be 100% of users that have cookies default

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off in Chrome.

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You know, apples already killed them. Marketers need a new data set. And the

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signal that they

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need to be looking towards is not gleaning personal information to retarget.

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That's kind of irrelevant

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to spend more dollars on ad platforms. It's actually trust data. It's the

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relationships that matter.

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It's this second party data. And I think the market is going to benefit

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tremendously from what is good

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for reveal and cross beams future, which is a statement that I've said hundreds

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of times,

8:13

probably, which is great product never beats great go to market, but great go

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to market

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never beats great network effects because with network effects come benefits

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that no one else

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could potentially overcome. And what that does is that allows for so much more

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value.

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I'll shout out some of the luminaries from podcast episodes of the past. We

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haven't had

8:33

them on in forever, but like Alan Adler, right, like ecosystem value. There's

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inherently going to be

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exponentially more ecosystem value, despite the fact that we're just combining

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two networks.

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No, it's not linear. It's not one plus one equals two. The ability for us to do

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things into the future,

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like having a true platform and changing the way that marketing, you know, goes

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to market,

8:56

changing the way that sales co sales, the changing the way that people service

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companies.

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I mean, it is the vision. It's the nearbound vision coming to life at the

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fundamental layer,

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right? This is the foundation that was always needed. And this partnerships

9:08

moment would never

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have been possible. Never have it been possible had it not been for cross beam,

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Bob Moore,

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the original founding team, Jess Walder, Xshan Blanda, to everyone that's been

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over there,

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to Simon and Alex and everyone that, you know, grinded it out for years with

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reveal.

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These were two innovative tech companies that fundamentally transformed the

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future of partner

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tech. It's not a portal. It's not PRM. And I think all of the go to market tech

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stack

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can truly be rebuilt on top of working with the people that your customers and

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your prospects

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already trust. You know, I love when you have these and this is like, even as

9:44

much as we talk

9:45

about network effects, it's still not intuitive for humans to understand them.

9:49

No. So when you look at the Metcalfe's law, right, you think about this just

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mathematically,

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so we know that let's just take the reveal network or the cross beam network.

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Network effect means that every time a new member joins the network, it adds

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additional value to

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all of the existing members of the network. So every time somebody else joins

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reveal,

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now reveals network is more valuable to everyone else who's on the network,

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right? So everybody

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wants more people on because now you have more people connected, blah, blah. So

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both of these

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companies have this going independently. And that's already the case. They

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already have that

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network effect. Now imagine two things. The mathematics are crazy. Instead of

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one person joining,

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you get the 20 plus 1000 people from cross beams network joining the 15,000

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from reveals

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network and vice versa, all in one shot, you're literally like, like

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accelerating that so quickly

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and you remove this little cost, even though you still benefited from those

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network effects of a

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member joining adding value to everyone else, that member had to also think

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about the nodes

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that were on the other network. They joined reveal, they had to think about

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cross beam. So maybe

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they have to be a part of both. And so you remove that friction, that cost, you

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double, more than

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double the number of nodes instantly on a single network. And you you increase

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because each of

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those each of those people that joined, yes, they added value to that network,

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but there was a

11:26

little bit subtracted for the fact that they might still have to also be on the

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other network,

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right? All that's gone, like the just like mathematically, the network value to

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every member

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that's on that network, even free users. Like that's what's so cool about this.

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This is not just

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about like paid customers, even free users of these tools, now just got like a

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massively

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expanded value for for nothing, just as a result of this merger happening.

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Well, let's let's geek out for a minute, since we're talking network effects,

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and you reference

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Metcalf. So Metcalf's law. So Metcalf's law is actually a number, right? And

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Metcalf's law stipulates

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that a the total value of a network grows proportional to the number of users

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squared. So if you were

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to have 10 users, would provide roughly 100 times more value than a network

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with one user, right?

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But the thing that Metcalf doesn't necessarily take into effect is the digital

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side of it. And

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there was a gentleman read that actually talked about the velocity increasing.

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So if we were to

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think about this from the perspective of that, I mean, you add two networks of

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10 to 15,000 companies,

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we're talking, you know, 1.5 million times the value, right? Right. And that's

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not even including

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the velocity that's going to, you know, people that were sitting on the

12:42

sidelines or failing to

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adopt one versus the other, like, there's exponentially more value here for the

12:47

market. And I'm so excited

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to bring that to life because these things matter, like, geeking out on network

12:55

effects and

12:55

considering this deal, this merger between the two companies, like, that's kind

13:00

of core to,

13:01

you know, Bob's thesis. I think, you know, one of my favorite episodes is the

13:06

Bob Moore podcast,

13:07

where we had him on and he was talking to me about his definition of a platform

13:11

, right? And

13:12

I think we have some platform definitions now that were kind of hard for us to

13:16

say in the past.

13:16

I think Bob's definition was of a platform was where the value of a new feature

13:24

being launched

13:25

is more valuable than any other feature that a competitor could launch, right?

13:31

And if you were

13:33

to think about a feature that Crossbeam and Reveal would launch separately, it

13:37

's kind of like,

13:38

maybe apples to apples to some degree. But now if you think about our ability

13:42

to combine and do

13:43

things and obviously there's lots of products, update announcements and things

13:46

that are going to,

13:46

you know, happen and communicate with our users on both sides, those loyal

13:50

reveal customers and

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those loyal Crossbeam customers. I think our ability to truly have platform

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value where we

13:57

launch a new feature and the networks are combined, you're not going to be able

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to launch a competitive

14:03

feature elsewhere. Yeah, exactly. The fact that it is on that platform by

14:08

itself makes it inherently

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more valuable. Yes, that was his phrasing. Yep. Yep. Which is it? Yeah. And

14:13

that's,

14:14

that's exactly, I love those kind of little tests of like, when do you know you

14:18

have a platform,

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right? When do you know you've got a real network effect going here? Man, that

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's,

14:24

it's so funny too, Jer, because you know, the way, the way all this stuff is

14:29

coming about.

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I remember we even teased it on this show. Because as I said, we've always been

14:35

, we've always been

14:36

friendly with Crossbeam and very respectful of each other, both companies, I

14:40

think like

14:41

respectfully competing and recognizing that we make each other better. And when

14:46

the Nearbound

14:46

book came out and ELG book came out within like a month of each other, we had a

14:51

bunch of people

14:53

on LinkedIn, you know, saying like, Oh, I read the Nearbound book. I'm reading

14:56

the ELG book now,

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like, Oh, it'd be interesting to see like what's the same, what's different. We

15:00

even had an article

15:01

about, you know, the differences between the two books or, you know, the

15:05

summary of both books

15:06

we published on Nearbound. And on LinkedIn, someone was like, we should have

15:10

Jared and Bob both like

15:12

do an event talking about this. And Sean, I was like, I'm in Sean, are you in?

15:15

And Sean was like,

15:17

okay, so it was public, right? So I'm like, cool. So we email each other and he

15:20

's like, Hey, after

15:21

ELG con let's get a meeting on the books. And we'll kind of chat about doing

15:24

like a webinar where we

15:25

talk about the ELG book, the Nearbound book, what's different, what's the same,

15:28

all this stuff,

15:29

what's happening in the industry. So I was really excited. We have that meeting

15:32

booked out, like,

15:34

you know, month in advance or something because they wanted to get through

15:36

their event. Literally

15:38

like a week before the meeting, Simon's like, Isaac, Jared, we got to talk, we

15:43

got some big news

15:44

coming. So, so I have this meeting with Sean and I'm like, well, the good news

15:49

is

15:50

cross beam and reveal get to do some big stuff together. Like we wanted to.

15:53

The bad news is it won't be the event that we were planning. It'll be something

15:58

totally

15:58

different. It'll be something way bigger, way better. So it's just, it's so

16:02

funny how,

16:03

like how quickly and then like the minute that, you know, you and I heard from

16:09

Simon that this was,

16:10

this was going down, it's like instantly it all makes sense. It all clicks

16:16

together. It's so

16:17

easy. It's so easy to see. So I want to ask you, because I think this is, we

16:24

don't have a hard and

16:24

fast answer to this. Yeah, this is kind of like, Hey, let's as we unfold as it

16:29

evolves.

16:29

When you Zuma and look at the market, people are resonating with this sort of

16:36

overall concept of

16:38

reaching buyers through the voices that they trust. You know, we've called that

16:43

nearbound and we

16:44

have a lot of, you know, language and ways of describing that. Cross beam is

16:48

focused on the

16:49

ecosystem led growth language and their concepts around that. These things are

16:54

essentially the

16:56

same thing. There's some differences and there's ways in which the different

17:00

language sort of

17:01

allows you to see things from different angles. So I'm curious from your

17:04

perspective, like,

17:05

how do those come together? How do those differ? And what do you think? I'm not

17:10

asking your opinion

17:11

of what should happen. I'm asking, what do you think will happen in the market

17:16

in terms of how

17:17

people approach and utilize for lack of a better term partner led strategies,

17:23

whether under the

17:24

ELG or the nearbound framework or both? Well, what's funny, Isaac, is I was

17:28

actually talking with Bob

17:29

about this the other day because I'm like, Hey, Bob, congrats on your book. He

17:32

's like, Hey,

17:33

congrats on your book. And I was like, we should probably chat ELG nearbound,

17:37

you know, like,

17:37

there's going to be tons of product questions, obviously about cross beam

17:40

reveal.

17:41

More to come on that. We'll leave that to the product marketing teams, the

17:45

incredible organizations

17:46

there and the product organizations. But when it comes to the, you know, the

17:50

lexicon, we let off

17:52

this episode talking about the network effects of the data side, Isaac. Well,

17:56

from your, in my

17:58

opinion, one of the most important network effects is language, right? Language

18:03

is a network effect.

18:04

And we've certainly seen nearbound take off in ways that probably surprised

18:07

even you and me.

18:09

So from my vantage point, you know, who uses, you know, in terms of like role

18:15

models and mentors,

18:16

who uses like, lead growth language, like product lead growth language, for

18:23

example,

18:23

that's typically going to be more of an executive thing. Why? Because it's kind

18:27

of cross functional.

18:28

You're, you're going from product and redesigning your marketing function and

18:32

your sales function

18:33

and your success function and your support function to better serve the needs

18:37

of the customer. It's a

18:38

very cross functional thing that has to come from an executive standpoint. And

18:42

that's more of a design concept from my vantage point, right? It's, it's not

18:48

necessarily a

18:50

difference of, well, what do I do given I have a job today as an account

18:54

executive, right? Like,

18:56

if your company does not have a PLG strategy, PLG content as a content marketer

19:03

means nothing to

19:03

you. If your company does not have a PLG strategy, PLG, you know, sales tactics

19:09

don't really mean

19:10

anything to you as an account executive, right? And I think ELG in nearbound,

19:15

for example, will

19:16

complement each other that way, meaning nearbound, you can do nearbound plays

19:21

even if you haven't

19:22

fully adopted an ELG strategy yet that goes from product to marketing to sales

19:27

and success.

19:28

That design component is necessary. And I think they married together like

19:32

peanut butter and jelly,

19:34

you know, like companies need an ELG strategy and the frontline needs nearbound

19:39

plays that they can do

19:40

now that does what that provides the proof that's needed for those executive

19:45

conversations. And

19:46

then to Asher Matthews point and partnership leaders, and I'll give them a

19:50

shout out, you know,

19:51

they're out there waving the chief partner officer flag. They need to be a

19:55

chief partner

19:56

officer to make an ELG movement happen inside of your company. You really have

20:01

to have those

20:01

frontline successes. You don't get that role absent, tangible impact on revenue

20:06

and your P and L.

20:07

Yeah, you know, I, I, I like the, you know, the analogy to PLG, obviously,

20:14

because it's a

20:15

similar, similar phrasing. But if you think about a company that's PLG, they're

20:19

all in on PLG. And

20:20

by the way, not many are like there are some who are truly PLG from the ground

20:25

up. Many are kind

20:26

of like they've got some PLG elements to them, like they have a free version,

20:31

and that enables you

20:32

to do a lot of cool things. And that, you know, affects the way that you think,

20:37

but it's not

20:38

necessarily the same as like true, you know, true PLG as a as an overall

20:41

strategy, the way that the

20:42

company is built. So if you have a PLG company, do they not have any inbound

20:47

efforts? Do they not

20:49

have any outbound efforts? No, of course they have those. Those are tactics in

20:52

their toolkit.

20:53

Those are informed by the fact that they're PLG. It's going to look different.

20:57

Inbound and

20:57

outbound are going to look different for a PLG company. And I think that's very

21:02

, very similar,

21:03

right? Like ELG is your fundamental business model, your approach, your

21:08

strategy, one that

21:11

requires demands and is built around an ecosystem. And if yes, that's your sort

21:18

of your ELG approach,

21:20

then the tools in your toolkit, you're still going to need to do some outbound

21:23

stuff,

21:23

you're still going to need to do some inbound stuff, and you're sure as heck

21:26

going to need to do

21:27

some nearbound stuff, that's going to have to plug in to all of those. And that

21:31

's that tactical

21:32

on the ground stuff. Like, okay, we're hosting an event. Are we running any out

21:39

bound to reach

21:40

people cold and tell them about the event? Are we running any inbound creating

21:44

some fun content

21:45

that drives interest? And are we running any nearbound? Are we involving

21:49

partners in the promotion

21:50

and execution of the event and getting the people that already have the trust

21:53

of our target audience

21:55

to get them interested? All of those are necessary. And an ELG company is going

22:02

to hold an event,

22:02

and they're going to need to do all of those things, right? So like, I think

22:05

they marry very,

22:06

very nicely when you just think about the existing language, the inbound out

22:10

bound and

22:10

nearbound, they fit in a similar bucket, ELG, PLG, fit in a similar bucket. To

22:15

me, those are not

22:16

in conflict. Those are very, very complimentary, almost nested within each

22:21

other. Absolutely.

22:22

I couldn't agree more. And they're serving people and will continue to serve

22:27

people for

22:28

years to come. This is, I just got an invite to do the closing keynote, which I

22:33

'm really excited about

22:35

for a, which I'm, it's kind of wild. I haven't even told Isaac about this yet.

22:39

I was like,

22:40

what are you talking about? I was supposed to know what's going on at a multi-

22:44

billion. So

22:45

billions and billions and billion dollar private equity annual meeting. So like

22:51

, we're talking

22:52

hundred plus portcos, all CEOs, CMOs, CROs, CCOs and CPOs. And they're having

23:00

me close out the entire

23:02

event is the closing keynote on a one-hour, nearbound go-to-market keynote. And

23:07

I'm like,

23:07

wow, that's wild. That's where we're at right now, though, folks. Like, if you

23:12

're listening to this

23:13

and me and Isaac just kind of reminiscing and pontificating on the future, like

23:17

, that's crazy to

23:18

me. That's insane. The closing keynote for a, I can't say the name right now

23:23

because it's not public

23:25

yet, but it's one of the world's largest private equity funds, their annual

23:29

meeting with all of

23:30

their portcos. And the nearbound guy, the one you listen to on this podcast is

23:33

doing the closing

23:34

keynote talking about how to run nearbound go-to-market. And then I'm going to

23:39

layer that with the

23:40

ecosystem-led growth narrative as well and bring it all together for them. So I

23:44

'm so excited.

23:45

The moments here, folks, it's yours for the taking. Yeah, it's, I think it's,

23:49

was it

23:50

Paul Graham? No, I think it's a, was it Ben Harowitz? No, it was Mark Andre

23:54

essen. Sorry, Mark Andreessen,

23:56

his definition of product market fit, right? When the market starts pulling

23:59

product out of you.

24:00

And I think we have encountered, if you want to call it, language market fit or

24:05

narrative market fit is probably better, where people cannot stop. They're like

24:14

asking for more

24:16

all the time. Okay, I want to know more about nearbound, about working through

24:20

an ecosystem,

24:21

about the who economy, like tell me more. And it's crazy because, you know, not

24:26

to the level of the

24:27

event you just described, but I'm getting like every week, people coming to me

24:32

and asking me to go

24:32

on a podcast or come speak at a, you know, an internal team meeting or to come

24:39

give their marketing

24:40

team some input or advice. I've been in B2B marketing for like two years. It's

24:46

not because of me. I'm

24:47

not an expert that people are that I'm sought. I'm not a known name in B2B

24:51

marketing. It's

24:53

nearbound. They're like, tell me about nearbound marketing. Okay, they want to

24:56

know about nearbound

24:57

marketing. They've seen me associated with it. They see the stuff that's being

25:00

put out. And they,

25:02

like, they want that, right? They want that. And that has somehow elevated me

25:07

to appear to be

25:08

a credible human in the B2B marketing space, which is tells you how powerful

25:12

this, this is,

25:12

this concept is, it's connecting. And it's like, I mean, even people in other

25:16

industries, you know,

25:17

I'm, I'm going to speak at, well, he was on the podcast, our friend, Tim Sherm

25:23

ak, but

25:23

to a conference he's hosting for realtors. He's like, you need to come and talk

25:27

about nearbound

25:28

in the who economy to all these realtors, right? It's like, there's something

25:33

bigger here that is

25:35

so cool to be in the midst of and to be a part of. And I think that's what

25:38

initially attracted me to

25:40

making the leap in the B2B and starting partner hacker with you two and a half

25:43

years ago.

25:44

And to see that momentum build, and then to see it, you know, now you have this

25:50

merger that makes

25:51

all of these plays so much easier and like, I don't know, I just get excited. I

25:54

get really

25:55

excited. I know it's easy to look at things and say, oh, AI is eating

25:57

everything and SaaS is in

25:58

trouble. And there's a lot of that that's true. There's a lot of really cool

26:02

things happening. Things

26:03

that frankly have needed to happen for a long time because buyers have wanted

26:07

them to happen.

26:08

And now the markets finally be enforced to adapt to what buyers already wanted.

26:13

100% on that your story made me think of just like other crazy things that have

26:18

happened in the

26:19

past couple months in the midst of all of this is I had the wildest. I'll try

26:23

not to disclose

26:24

anything. So Microsoft, you can get mad at me if I do. But I have the wildest

26:30

meeting ever

26:31

with just one gentleman from Microsoft that I want to give away too many

26:36

details on the

26:37

division or business unit, but it's a multi-billion dollar business unit. Just

26:40

responsible on the

26:41

sales side. He read the book. So Mo, yeah, so Mo will shout out Mo. He wrote a

26:46

review on near

26:47

round.com of the book. And then he's like, hey, I've been sharing this around

26:51

inside of Microsoft.

26:53

And I want to put you in touch with some higher ups. And I'm like, okay, sure.

26:57

I still don't know

26:59

why you want to talk to me. You're Microsoft. You know, like, why would this be

27:04

an interesting

27:05

meeting? And I'm telling you right now, Isaac, that was one of the coolest

27:08

meetings I've ever

27:09

been in in my life. Because who showed up on that call? This was complete P and

27:15

L ownership

27:16

for all of North America for every line of service for all of Microsoft. So we

27:21

're not talking billions

27:22

or tens of billions. We're talking a lot of money and full remit over sales,

27:27

marketing,

27:28

partnerships, success, everything. So we're talking top brass at Microsoft with

27:33

, you know,

27:34

weeklies with, you know, Satya. And what was so fascinating about that is that

27:42

everything that

27:42

you and I've been saying and that we've been feeling in the market in the

27:45

market, Microsoft

27:46

was seeing as well, like they have 95% partner attach. But here's the crazy

27:52

thing. And if you're

27:53

a Microsoft partner, you know, this isn't new to anyone. It's public

27:56

information. It's not orchestrated.

27:59

And what do I mean by it's not orchestrated? It's that partners and Microsoft,

28:04

yeah, of course,

28:04

they work together. But it's almost not on purpose or at least not on an

28:09

account basis or not on

28:10

an let's say an intent or a relationship. It's like, Hey, you're a Microsoft

28:14

partner,

28:15

we're going to call into all of your customers. Okay, I'm a Microsoft partner.

28:18

I'm going to call

28:19

into this set. But it's not on purpose. And they were really talking through

28:23

how they wanted to

28:24

redesign and rethink through all of their go to market to align with what we

28:29

were talking about

28:30

and nearbound. Like, how do we help certain partners, let's say, verticalize

28:35

and get better at

28:36

marketing to a subset of the market? How do we help our partners call into

28:41

accounts that are

28:43

better fit from them? And then how do we provide support and call into their

28:46

accounts and see their

28:48

information? And it was just this fascinating conversation with four senior

28:52

executives at

28:52

Microsoft, where we were just kind of geeking out out loud about transforming

28:57

billions and

28:58

henceforth, you know, you're talking hundreds of billions of dollars of

29:02

commerce in the ways

29:04

that you and I've been talking about. It's the wildest thing. And what I can

29:08

say is that these

29:08

conversations are happening from Microsoft to Stripe to mom and pop startups

29:12

and, you know,

29:13

brother and sister startups, husband, wife startups, solo, you name it. You

29:18

called it the

29:18

nearbound underlay, you know, from the bottom up. Yeah, they're happening

29:22

everywhere.

29:23

Yeah, that's what's fun to me. I like to do this little, where you just go poke

29:28

around and see,

29:29

like, who is talking about these things that I've never heard of before and

29:33

just stumbling upon,

29:34

like, well, not that long ago, the nearbound club, a new community that sprung

29:40

up that I didn't

29:41

know anything about. We didn't nobody at Reveal or nearbound.com knew anyone

29:44

over there personally.

29:46

And I just had I just talked to a marketing agency. He asked to interview me

29:52

for his

29:52

sub stack that the guy who runs this agency and he was like, yeah, I was I was

29:56

struggling starting

29:57

in January. What was the name of that newsletter? What was the name of that

30:00

newsletter? It was

30:02

not the name of that newsletter. Live, live, you can market a marker. Yep. That

30:05

's like,

30:05

con from us. I was like, that's a great name. Where'd you get that? He's like,

30:08

from you.

30:12

But he said, you know, like, you know, economy's getting tight. He was having a

30:16

hard time getting

30:17

clients starting in January. And he said he read the book, nearbound book. And

30:21

he started using that

30:24

framing and that terminology in his pitches to his customers. Hey, I'm going to

30:29

come help you

30:29

with your marketing stuff and I'm going to help you get a nearbound motion

30:33

going. And he was like,

30:34

night and day, started to get easier, started to get clients. Like it's been

30:38

huge. Like,

30:40

and it's because of the shared pain, right? I said a while ago on this show, I

30:45

don't know how long it

30:46

was. Everybody's problem aware solution, wary. And I think everybody is is so

30:53

problem aware.

30:54

They just know that reaching buyers through their existing methods is just

30:58

getting harder and harder.

30:59

And they are solution curious. And when it comes to how do the solutions look

31:06

in practice,

31:07

I think we're still not that's still not clear for most people. But from a

31:12

broad level, okay,

31:15

I'm problem aware enough that I know I need a solution. And I'm very curious

31:20

about this idea

31:21

of reaching people through the voices they trust. It's logical. When I look at

31:26

examples of people

31:27

doing it, they're winning more than those who aren't. When I try to figure out

31:31

what that would

31:31

look like in my own company, I'm starting to get some ideas, but that's less

31:35

clear yet. We

31:36

haven't moved to the part where it's easy to immediately plug that in, get the

31:40

plays, get the

31:41

tactics, figure out which departments are implicated in that, which strategies

31:44

does that involve.

31:45

But we've moved from, yeah, I know there's a problem, but I don't trust any of

31:50

these proposed

31:51

solutions to I know there's a problem. And I know that the solution has to

31:55

involve reaching

31:56

people through voices they trust. Now, what is that going to look like in my

32:00

specific company?

32:01

And that's a big step on that process. And that means that the early movers,

32:06

you do have a few people

32:07

who get it soup to nuts who are like, yep, problem, yep, this is the solution.

32:12

And here's how I'm

32:13

going to implement it. And they're out there doing it. They're the pioneers.

32:16

And they've kind of

32:17

figured it out. They're starting to write those plays. But for it hasn't

32:20

reached the early

32:21

adopt the broader market yet hasn't expanded into that. And people are still

32:25

like, okay,

32:26

I get it. I need to go through voices I trust. How's that look in my company?

32:31

And that's where

32:32

it gets fun because that's where it's not about someone laying out the high

32:36

level ideas. That's

32:38

where the story finding comes in. It's about finding the people who are doing

32:42

it and learning

32:43

what you can do, what you can emulate from them and what you might need to

32:46

adjust.

32:46

There's so many of them. I mean, like, I've loved everything that like working

32:50

with Jessica

32:51

Fewless at inverter and like their team has done. I mean, we've done so much

32:55

with them.

32:55

They're doing their own nearby marketing on their own. They're an agency. They

32:58

're helping

32:59

folks figure out their nearby marketing. They help write the nearby marketing

33:02

blueprint.

33:03

They're doing ABM campaigns that are all nearby. Isaac might have one of them

33:08

for those of you

33:09

the ongoing joke for the dozens of you that watch on YouTube. And actually, we

33:12

've got a few

33:13

hundreds now. Look at that, baby. There we are.

33:16

Marketing blueprint. Physical copy. It's actually super nice.

33:21

There we go. Coming to an event near you. It's been fun. So fun to get to see

33:30

how the right

33:30

language and helping people drive their curiosity, take a little bit of courage

33:35

and some conviction

33:36

to go put these plays into practice because we were just merely a match. I mean

33:41

, that's

33:43

the old Sam Adams quote, you know, igniting brush fires of, you know, liberty

33:46

and the minds of the

33:47

few. It does not take a majority to prevail, but an irate tireless minority

33:52

keen on setting the

33:53

brush fires of freedom in the minds of many. You know, I think I just nailed

33:56

that Sam Adams quote.

33:57

I think you did. That's an impressive top of a top of mind. Unless you have

34:01

those glasses that

34:02

like reflect on the inside of your eye from a Google search or something.

34:05

No, no, speaking of which that was actually one. I wanted to shout this out

34:11

just to kind of

34:12

wrap this up. We're talking about like how big this is in the market is.

34:15

I covered a story a couple months back where Google was in talks with Apple

34:21

about Gemini

34:22

powering some stuff and I was like, Oh, the WWDC is coming up like Google and

34:27

Apple is going to

34:28

pen a deal for Gemini to power AI for Apple. Well, it turns out that Google

34:34

pays Apple and I knew

34:36

this in the back of my head and I didn't put two and two together. The risk

34:39

profile there is

34:39

actually pretty high for Apple and for Google. Why? Google pays Apple, I

34:45

believe it's $20 billion

34:47

a year to be de facto search on iOS devices for that license. That's that's 5%

34:53

of Apple's revenue.

34:54

That's that's a significant amount, right? That's a big partnership $20 billion

34:58

a year, right?

35:00

And the WWDC just came out. Apple did what they normally do and they launched

35:06

Apple Intelligence,

35:07

right? Instead of AI, it's they've never said AI. By the way, this is like the

35:11

first time they've

35:12

ever said it and they still avoided saying it. It's Apple Intelligence. Well,

35:16

turns out Apple

35:16

Intelligence, it's got some element stuff, whatever. I won't get into the

35:19

features, but

35:20

basically Siri is still stupid. That's the big takeaway. You'll ask Siri

35:26

something,

35:27

but then what happens? I'm sorry. I couldn't find the answer. Would you like me

35:32

to ask chat GPT?

35:34

It's a powered by partnership with OpenAI. It's the most it's the wildest thing

35:39

just to see Apple

35:40

ending their keynote with being like, here's our latest and greatest. It's a

35:45

powered by feature.

35:46

It literally says chat GPT and it has the logo in it.

35:54

Yep. So you biggest companies? No, and then that's where I feel like,

36:02

you know, I love the brush fire quote, but I would be severely exaggerating to

36:07

compare myself to a

36:09

match. I'm more just like a little piece of Tinder. The fire was started when I

36:13

got here.

36:14

You know what I mean? Wonderful industry. I'm helping spread it by being no,

36:18

like it's just

36:18

amazing to be it's amazing to be in a place at a time when it's undergoing a

36:25

major shift

36:26

and you're there and you're on that wave. I remember one of the first one of

36:30

the earliest,

36:30

maybe first 10 episodes that I co-hosted with you. We had Chris, Chris Similla

36:36

on and he was at

36:38

Crossbeam at the time and he said, episode 50, I believe, it's a damn good time

36:44

to be in partnerships

36:45

and I remember like, oh, that's good. That's reassuring because I just am new

36:49

to this whole

36:50

thing. Like it's good to hear that people feel that way. And I just I think

36:53

that's timely. I think

36:54

that's timely right now. So despite the realities, right? Like it's not all it

36:58

's not all roses. There's

36:59

a lot of healthy. That's the thing about brush fires, right? They burn away a

37:04

lot of stuff too,

37:05

that that was overgrown. So like that, you know, a movement is like a brush

37:10

fire. It will absolutely

37:11

clear out some some garbage in there, some dead wood. And there's a lot of that

37:15

. So like a lot of

37:16

that. That's not easy, but it's good. It's good. It's good for the growth of an

37:20

ecosystem. Oh my gosh,

37:22

the metaphors are just coming together. They're they're they're they're there.

37:24

I mean, that's,

37:25

you know, systems that exchange change, like that's that's that's actually my

37:33

keynote from the first

37:36

super node conference. It's it's for those of you that really want to geek out

37:40

on like network

37:41

effects and systems thinking. It's still like one of my favorite presentations

37:44

ever because I talk

37:45

about the origins of systems, which has to go back 13 billion years ago. You

37:50

know, roughly.

37:50

Yeah, that was the presentation where I was like, Jared, you got to make sure

37:54

you get those slides

37:55

ready. Your presentations in two days, you have a 15 minute session. You're

37:59

like, yep, I'll send you

38:00

the draft slides. And then I open up a slide deck. Slide one is like 15 billion

38:08

years ago. And then

38:10

I'm like, wait, how many slides are in here? 108 slides for 15 minutes. And

38:15

somehow you got

38:16

through the mall. So kudos to you. It's it's one of my favorites, though,

38:20

because like systems

38:21

that exchange change and like, that's the reality whenever you have this

38:26

collaborative spirit and

38:28

you're thinking in systems that like nothing is things that don't exchange,

38:34

they stagnate and they

38:35

they end up in entropy, right? Like, in order for us to grow, these moments are

38:41

critical because I

38:43

don't think anyone wants a world that we had, you know, in the middle of the

38:46

pandemic, it was like,

38:48

oh, you know, all of this tech stuff work from home, zoom, you know, all of

38:51

these things.

38:52

If you were some places in tech, it was okay in other places, it wasn't. But

38:55

the reality is this.

38:56

Everything came online. And in the past year, even 2023 to 2024, we added there

39:05

's 14,000 plus

39:06

companies in MarTech alone. So if you look at Scott Brinkers, Chief MarTech Map

39:09

it went from like 11,000 last year to 14,000 this year. That's the biggest

39:14

growth. I mean,

39:15

that's like more than the three previous years combined. There's stuff that's

39:18

going to get cleared

39:19

out. And, you know, being in a place where you're facilitating more exchange,

39:24

right? And more

39:25

change is probably the best place to be in that. And that's, you know, like,

39:28

what, I'll go back to

39:31

how I wanted to interject this into the podcast at some point, Isaac, because

39:35

it's, I think it's

39:35

just a lesson for those folks that have gone out and found the conviction to do

39:40

something in this

39:41

space, really material. So that's the folks that are fighting for the chief

39:44

partner officer

39:44

role, or like Greg from starting like Euler to Pete Caputa, you know, taking

39:49

the reins of data box

39:50

to some of my favorite companies that have emerged kind of since we've done

39:54

this and are

39:55

doing things really well is what I what I said to you, I remember me trying to

39:59

recruit you as like

40:00

partner in this. I'm like, look, there's it's kind of a Steven, it's a bastard

40:05

ized Steven Pressfield

40:06

quote mixed with some David Cansell. But what it was, and for those folks of

40:11

you that are thinking

40:11

about having an entrepreneurial itch, it's the differences between builders,

40:15

geniuses, and pros.

40:16

And not to say that we were pro and we did this, you know, 100%, but the right

40:20

mindset and the right

40:21

choices really do make a difference in your life. And the difference between a

40:25

builder and a genius

40:26

is that a builder has a hammer and she's looking for a nail, right? Here's my

40:30

product. Do you want

40:31

it? Here's my product. Here's my product. Here's my product. I found a solution

40:36

Neat. AI is going to eat your lunch. Like good luck in this world. Then there's

40:42

geniuses and they

40:43

might come in the form of the 10x technological innovation, right? So like some

40:47

maybe something

40:47

with blockchain AI proliferates some giant challenges that will come, they will

40:52

come with AI. And some

40:54

genius will do something with blockchain and we finally go, aha, that's the use

40:57

case we were all

40:58

looking for. That's what we needed blockchain for. You know, but here's the

41:03

reality.

41:06

As I said earlier in the podcast, great product never beats great go-to market

41:09

and great go-to market never beats great network effects. So then obviously a

41:13

Microsoft can copy

41:15

it or someone like that Microsoft blockchain another startup boom, you have the

41:17

open AI 2.0

41:19

and all those LLM startups. Good luck, right? All those blockchain startups.

41:21

Good luck. Who knows?

41:22

But a pro, if you really want to nail it right, they don't choose the product

41:29

first. What they do

41:30

is they choose the market first and an undeniable shift in the world that's

41:34

affecting human behavior.

41:36

And you know what we chose Isaac? We chose that. We were sick of the spam. We

41:40

were sick of getting

41:42

marketed to. I was sick of sales and marketing alignment meetings. All of my

41:45

peers and my colleagues

41:46

were. I believed with all of my heart that what was happening in SAS was not

41:51

okay. I was sick of

41:52

the board meetings. I was sick of the VCs doing things. What I felt was going

41:56

to break. So I chose

41:57

the market first and then we built something for all of you, right? We built

42:02

something where we

42:03

investigated. We pulled back the layers and it was the content was the product,

42:07

right?

42:08

We decided to build in market, to live in market and to create a product that

42:16

was this for you all.

42:17

And we didn't care what came out the other side of it because we knew we chose

42:21

the market first.

42:22

We chose the persona that was most impacted by it, partnerships. And we helped

42:27

them see,

42:28

and we hope we helped you see an undeniable shift in the world and human

42:32

behavior through your lens.

42:33

The market and the moment and the moment is also the name of the track from the

42:37

PLX Summit, right?

42:38

Yeah, that was, yeah, maybe if you ate lists as that PLX playlist after this

42:42

one, go back,

42:43

go find the PLX playlist on Spotify. It hits. The best working music ever. I've

42:47

been jamming it

42:47

all weeks since you re-told about it. We should look if you're editing this,

42:52

you should put that

42:52

at the end of this episode, the moment that song from the PLX playlist.

42:58

Bringing this home and

43:00

getting overly complicated with metaphors as I want to do since you mentioned

43:05

the brush fires.

43:06

Market is like an ecosystem that is a great metaphor and we've talked at length

43:10

about that.

43:11

And a movement within a market is like a brush fire. And I was watching a

43:18

documentary about the

43:19

Everglades recently since we've moved down here in Florida. And the Everglades,

43:23

what do you think

43:23

of? You just think of water. They're just water soaked. It's a big swamp, right

43:26

? No, they have like

43:27

annual fires all the time. And you'll have this ecosystem, this market, it has

43:35

a dry season where

43:37

there just isn't enough rain for everything in there to grow. And it starts to

43:41

get things start to

43:42

die off and they start to be a bunch of clutter collecting around things that

43:46

aren't really serving

43:47

a much of a purpose anymore. And I kind of feel like in this market, there's

43:51

just not enough

43:52

attention from buyers anymore. We can't get to the buyers enough as these

43:58

changes from the how

43:59

to the who economy. And it gets dry. And what do you need to clear out

44:03

everything so that you

44:04

can get new growth again? You need a fire. You need a movement. You need a

44:07

brush fire. You got all

44:08

kinds of lightning strikes down here in Florida. You need a bunch of lightning

44:13

strikes and they

44:15

spark something off. And that movement of like, okay, this how economy tactics

44:21

are drying up.

44:23

So we need to spark something new to clear out all the dead wood so that new

44:28

growth can

44:28

emerge. And when the rainy season comes again, because it absolutely will,

44:32

markets come and go

44:34

that you'll have all that stuff cleared out so that the real healthy, strong

44:37

stuff can grow back,

44:38

right? And like, maybe that's belabored. Maybe that's too romantic for some of

44:42

you. But for me,

44:42

that hits, that hits and like feels like that's the moment we're in dry season.

44:46

Now the brush fire is sweeping across clear in the path and new growth can come

44:52

once we kind of

44:53

get rid of all of this, all this dead wood that's laying around that are just

44:57

relics and remnants

44:59

from the old how economy days when you just relied on spamming people and just

45:03

cranking up the volume

45:04

more on your outbound and your advertisements and your cookies. Clear that

45:08

stuff all out of here.

45:10

This movement's coming to burn it away so we can start to build something

45:14

interconnected

45:16

and healthy and strong. 100%. I could not think of a more apt metaphor for this

45:22

announcement of the cross beam and reveal merger. Isaac Morehouse, everybody,

45:28

the master of metaphors

45:30

all the time, all the time. Yeah, amazing way to end an episode to say, you

45:36

know,

45:38

cross beam reveal are now a single entity. I don't know. Like, yeah, it's wild,

45:43

wild, so much fun to be a part of it. So much. Thank you to everybody who's

45:47

been here with us

45:48

a part of this. And there's a lot more to come. The market keeps moving and we

45:52

're excited to keep

45:52

moving with it. Absolutely. All right, near bound. We'll see you around until

45:57

next time on the near

45:58

bound podcast.

45:59

I lost my way. Live the day by day.

46:03

The lonely way. No one hears me now.

46:08

I lost way.

46:09

I felt it fade in the craze.

46:14

No one reaching out.

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